and, bill, this is the reason that mitt romney should have talked more about judges during this election cycle. this is where it is all -- the action is in the courts. and conservatives are losing oftentimes in the courts because we're losing the presidential election. >> bill: i mean, look, you are a converted. laura converted catholicism. and i'm sure in the beginning when you were thinking about doing it you were attracted to the philosophy of jesus and how it was incorporated into the roman catholic church, how -- what the man did. there wasn't any catholic church when jesus was walking or when he was executed. all right? that came afterward. and a considerable amount of time afterward. but the philosophy of jesus attracts people and then they look around. do i want to be an episcopalian? i do want to be a baptist? do i want to go and be a catholic? we go and pick the church. if the government were to say hey you know what? we'll put up that roman catholic thing in providence, rhode island then they would be right. that would be -- >> -- it's about more than that. this is about a des